Appropriately Inappropriate

omniscienttsunami:

The Unpopular Opinions of a Post-Modern Prep: Skeeviness

ghostiness:

omniscienttsunami:

appropriately-inappropriate:

It always rubs me entirely the wrong way when I’m browsing and I happen upon some activist telling someone who they can and cannot be attracted to.
For example, apparently the feeling in the echo chamber is that lesbians are all intrinsically transphobic because a great many of them aren’t…

You’re completely missing the point.  The statements they are making are the fact that if you identify as a lesbian and hate penis then it’s erasive to many trans women who do have a penis.  You claim that they are shaming people for sexual desires, but they are not.  They are simply saying that people who claim to hate penis and are lesbian are implying that trans women are not women which is a serious problem.

Sure they can identify however they want but it doesn’t stop them from being transmisogynistic and cissexist.  I’m sorry that the truth upsets you but non-trans individuals DO NOT have any say in what is or is not cissexist and non-trans women DO NOT have any say in what is transmisogynistic (and even if someone is trans, they don’t speak for the entire community).  I for one am not sorry for what they’re saying because it’s calling attention to a problem inherent in the lesbian community.

Now I’m not saying they should change what they are attracted to.  That’s clearly not a viable action, nor something reasonable to expect.  I personally think just rephrasing their identity would be the best solution.  Something like attracted to vaginas instead of attracted to women.

I’m sorry you’re so butt-hurt because trans people are explaining things that are oppressive and erasive.  Your justifications are flimsy and unconvincing and merely harm trans women

All I took away from the original rant is that she’s upset about people saying that if you wouldn’t date a transperson, you’re 100% no-questions-asked transphobic - and that if you speak up, you get shot down for not being a “real lesbian.”

So Question #1: what’s the reasoning? If we’re going by the “I don’t like penises,” well, I would say that sentence as a standalone reason is about as valid as “I don’t like red hair.” A penis is a physical trait some women have, that they were born with. Hair color, eye color, height… all the same. And you wouldn’t call a lesbian “not real” because she didn’t like tall women, or raven-haired women, or women with Professor Snape’s nose.

(Canon: Only real lesbians like Professor Snape’s nose.)

Now, of course, that’s giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming that “I don’t like penis” really amounts to a shrug and “I dunno, I just don’t find penises attractive.” That’s a valid preference. Obviously, if you don’t like transwomen as a whole, like, wouldn’t be friends with them, that’s as sexist as not liking cismen as a whole. All because of a few inches of spongey material? Tsk.

(Canon: Real lesbians hate sponges.)

Her other complaint appears to be launched from seeing the darker side of the Trans community. You know, those very vocal people who like to make rash generalizations (about lesbians, in this case) and yell things like “Die, cis scum!” because oh yeah how dare cisgendered people be born comfortable in their own bodies. She’s talking about people who are the equivalent to those fundamentalist Christians that make everyone think Christians are 100% no-questions-asked fire-and-brimstone ignorant dicks with megaphones.

They’re loud and they’re in your face, and when they’re trying so hard to stick out in your mind it’s easy to think of them when you think their of group - they become they become the face, someone you’ll always think of when someone says “Transpeople.” That’s a problem, and it’s the same problem with any group of people.

So Question #2: Is this the case? Has the original author had shaking experiences with that aspect of the trans community? How has it affected her views?

Now I have the disadvantage of having not read the referenced articles (although she provides a couple of usernames for study), so I really cannot say whether or not these authors are making valid criticisms of a system gone wrong, bringing light to a previously-shadowed problem, or slamming someone for having a sexual preference.

So here’s my tl;dr summation: It sounds like knees are being jerked a little, maybe on all sides. People who make generalizations shouldn’t, people who hate others based on birth traits shouldn’t, transfolk are folk just like everyone else, and someday I will learn how to properly write out my opinions instead of this garbled mess.

As always, counterpoints, differing opinions or interpretations, and open debate are welcome and encouraged. Especially if I totally missed something that would alter my view on the matter! :D

I didn’t know how to phrase this last night when I reblogged this but it’s not erasive for a lesbian to not want to date a specific trans woman for reasons other than the fact that she’s trans, which sounds kind of obvious.  HELL I’m even so far as to say that trans individuals in general are a handful because of all the oppression they put up with socially and legally and not wanting to deal with that is a shitty but acceptable reason.  If you can’t be there or aren’t strong enough to support someone going through that, that’s no fault of your own.  There are a few reasons I would give a pass on.

Ghostiness let me quote you: ‘If we’re going by the “I don’t like penises,” well, I would say that sentence as a standalone reason is about as valid as “I don’t like red hair.”’

Well that may SOUND like a similar argument but guess what?  Having red hair is not constantly erased.  They’re not ostracized from women only spaces.  They don’t already deal with this problem that is perpetuated by people of the identity lesbian furthering the notion that women can’t ever have a penis. Ever.

‘“I dunno, I just don’t find penises attractive.” That’s a valid preference."  I agree with you, but that’s not the definition of lesbian.  This is the definition of Gynesexual and why it is erasive to trans women because it is indicative of trans women not actually being women.

“Obviously, if you don’t like transwomen as a whole, like, wouldn’t be friends with them, that’s as sexist as not liking cismen as a whole."  You can’t be sexist towards men.  Sexism is a systematic oppression of a sex which men don’t experience.  You can be prejudice towards men, but there are more men in positions of power.  Just nit-picking here.

The trans people who are all “Die Cis Scum” is a problem I agree.  Violence is not a solution to violence. Ever.

"If you can’t be there or aren’t strong enough to support someone going through that, that’s no fault of your own."
See, and I’d argue that this is, on some levels, worse than simply stating, “I don’t have an attraction a physical feature”. It straight-up says, “You are going through too much shit right now, and I don’t want to be involved”. To me, that’s definitely more….openly trans-specific.

I’d argue about that red-hair thing. Kick A Ginger Day is definitely targeted violence against someone based on an immutable physical characteristic. It’s certainly not on the level of violence against trans* individuals, but it is there. That is, however, tangentical to the point at hand.

Also: Please don’t generalize. Because a small subset of the lesbian population is transmisogynist does not mean we all are—just as not all of the trans* population has DIE CIS SCUM tattood permanently on their bodies. There’s bad apples in every barrel—and yet, it seems as though ALL lesbians are being tacitly tarred with the same brush, which is pretty damn unfair.

"The trans people who are all "Die Cis Scum" is a problem I agree.  Violence is not a solution to violence. Ever."
On this, we can certainly agree 100%. I have never supported Bash Back initiatives, or anything similar, precisely because of this. Violence begets more violence and frankly speaking, they (aka everyone who isn’t a sexual/gender/racial/etc minority) outnumber us. That was one of my main concerns whilst writing the rant in the first place.